A Conversation With Ernesto Spinelli That Changes How we Think About Psychotherapy
My today’s guest is Ernesto Spinelli – one of the founders of existential therapy in the UK and one of the most influential figures in existential psychology and psychotherapy globally.
He’s been practicing for over forty years. He’s written books that many of us learned from. At 76, he still sees clients. Supervises. Writes novels.
Still has a lot of things that he wants to be doing.
What struck me when we spoke wasn’t his reputation. It was his humility. His curiosity. His humour. The sense that after four decades, he’s still genuinely interested in what it means to sit with another person.
We talked about what therapy is really for — and why he believes we’ve made a terrible error in how we understand it.
We explored what your symptoms might actually be giving you.
Why people find AI therapists empathic and what that reveals about human loneliness. We discussed conflict, relatedness, and something he calls “the dictatorship of I.”
And he shared advice for anyone stepping into this work.
This is a conversation with someone who is still driven by curiosity and refuses to pretend that he has all the answers.
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WE DISCUSS:
[02:00] “An old man with a young mind” — Ernesto on aging and unfinished projects
[05:00] How he “fell into” existential therapy
[08:00] Reading Husserl for the first time: “What is this?”
[10:00] The birth of existential therapy in the UK
[14:00] Curiosity as the heart of good therapy
[16:00] “Psychotherapy is seen as treatment rather than engagement — that’s been a terrible error”
[18:00] Explanatory vs. understanding-focused psychology
[25:00] “We have honest conversations” — Ernesto’s simplified approach
[28:00] What your symptoms might be giving you
[29:00] The question that changes everything: “Would you miss it?”
[34:00] AI therapy: why people find it empathic
[37:00] “Like a super person-centered therapist”
[38:00] “I find that terrifying” — but also revealing
[40:00] Sartre on conflict and the possibility of constructive engagement
[45:00] The “dictatorship of I” and why relatedness matters
[50:00] Advice for therapists-in-training: “Stay with what drew you here”
[52:00] “It’s like a poem that finally says what you always felt”
[54:00] Writing novels, cinema, and the road not taken
KEY QUOTES FROM THIS EPISODE:
“If you’re not genuinely curious about your client, you won’t be a good therapist.”
“Psychotherapy is seen as a form of treatment rather than a form of engagement and relation. That’s been a terrible error.”
“What mostly happens in my engagements with my clients is that we have honest conversations.”
“Is your problem giving you anything worthwhile? And if you were to lose it — would you miss it?”
“People are turning to AI therapy because they’re getting something from it that they’re not getting from day-to-day human relations.”
“The world is increasingly dominated by a kind of dictatorship of I.”
GUEST:
Ernesto Spinelli, PhD is an existential psychotherapist, psychologist, a Fellow of the British Psychological Society, former Chair of the Society for Existential Analysis, and author whose work has consistently challenged psychotherapy’s reliance on diagnosis, technique, and cure. A former Academic Dean at Regent’s University London, he is known for advancing existential-phenomenological psychotherapy through his emphasis on relatedness, uncertainty, and therapy as an act of understanding rather than intervention.
ABOUT THE HOST:
I’m Max — a psychologist, counsellor, and trainee existential therapist at the New School of Psychotherapy and Counselling (NSPC) / Middlesex University in London.
After 25 years in business, I’m now exploring what it means to become a therapist — and what that journey reveals about being human.
This podcast documents that unfolding.
📚 Books:
The Interpreted World: An Introduction to Phenomenological Psychology
https://a.co/d/eMQmy3y
Practising Existential Psychotherapy: The Relational World
https://a.co/d/hljWmsb
Tales of Un-Knowing: Therapeutic Encounters from an Existential Perspective
https://a.co/d/43q1StD
The Mirror and the Hammer: Challenging Orthodoxies in Psychotherapeutic Thought
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014FVQY72?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_3F1YW0TCAYD8NP57XDYF
🔗 Links:
Ernesto Spinelli & Associates
http://www.plexworld.com
Society for Existential Analysis:
https://existentialanalysis.org.uk
CONNECT:
🎥 Watch the full video interview on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4u39LZ_M3Uk
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maxkarlintherapy/
🌐 Website: maxkarlin.com
📧 Contact: https://linktr.ee/maxkarlin
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